Living Against the Grain:

“You were living in London with your two girls and your partner (Tim). My question is: how did you decide to choose that path of going off the grid and homeschooling in New Zealand? Why did you do that, how did you do it, and what were the challenges?”

The call to the wild

“When we lived in London, I was answering this call to the wild in the ways that I could, like taking off on weekends with the girls when they were tiny, camping, biking to this forest in the middle of London every single day of maternity leave. I would just take a picnic and live underneath the trees, you know?

So, I was feeling this call to the wild and doing it in every way I could in London. I think there was a correlation with discovering unschooling and having this massive revelation that you can completely let go of everything about how you thought the world worked, how you thought you should act, and what decisions you should sensibly make. You can let go of all of that and just do what you want. There are other ways to live.

Looking back, there were loads of tiny moments, and one of them was watching Revolutionary Road with Kate Winslet. It’s quite a simple movie, but the thing that struck me was this sensation that life will just plod along unless you really grab hold of it and make it your own. That was very impactful for us.

We questioned if our life was currently going in the direction we wanted it to go. We both had jobs we liked — Tim was a youth worker, and I was working for Oxfam in campaigns.

But our life became work, commuting, home life — strict boundaries. We were working so hard just to pay the London mortgage. We had no free time. Every hour in London felt occupied with paying the mortgage.

We thought, if we don’t do something radical, we’re going to end up in a life that’s not really ours. So, we sold our house, bought a camper van, and took it around Europe. We didn’t know what we were doing, but we were just looking for ideas. I had a blog at the time and

asked readers for suggestions.

They said, "Go to this forest school in Germany and this eco- village in the South of Spain." So, we plotted the craziest route through Europe in our camper van with our two little girls.

When we went to the forest school in Germany, I had my big revelation about unschooling. The kids there were autonomous and sovereign creatures, and the adults hardly got involved— just there to gently guide in the space. I saw industrious five-year-olds filling their day with amazing lessons. Until then, I thought, "Our kids are going to school, and I’ll be on the school board, really contributing to making the system better." But I realised that doesn’t work.

Now, I believe that if you have any energy toward education, don’t put it into the system. Put it into building something outside of it. Everyone thinks, "I can change it from the inside," but you absolutely cannot. Millions of people have tried with no effect.

Our road trip was a pretty wild, stressful, amazing adventure — a bit of everything. Tim is originally from New Zealand, and by the end of our road trip, we realised we wanted to go to New Zealand and be as close to the land as possible. So, we came here.

Re-wilding our lives

That trip planted a lot of seeds in my mind, and when we moved to New Zealand, we started WWOOFing (Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms). That’s when we realized how much we loved yurts and living off the grid. While WWOOFing, we met a family we really liked and decided to buy land together.

It was like the call of the wild — what my heart needed. My whole personhood. I’d started this path of de-institutionalising, removing the institutions that were left in my body, like the church, the school, the structure of jobs — all the thinking that kept society going. I was uprooting it, and I think to complete this process, I needed to be as wild as possible. So, I had this rewilding decade living in yurts and off the grid with my two small kids.

We were all unschooling together with this other family. When we were on the farm, we ran a learning collective in a yurt. Ten kids would come for two days a week, and they'd do projects, swim, craft, and play. It was very magical at times. I was running my business, writing mostly about parenting, and I had a big YouTube channel. Tim was running the farm with cattle and chickens.

Tim had always been the hands-on dad half the time. We've balanced everything between us. We made that commitment when the kids were born, so it was easy to manage.

I believe we only do something different if we actively decide to. We decided that we were going to share childcare — even if that means both of us taking a hit in our careers, and all of us taking a hit in the bank — was what we were going to do. So much of what we have now is because of decisions we made so long ago, and I think that was one of the big ones.

We then moved to Raglan when the girls were nine and eleven. It was just time for a change. We always knew we wouldn’t stay on the farm through their teenage years because we were really in the middle of nowhere, but it came sooner than we expected.

It was important for us to get our eldest daughter, the most social kid, around friends. Her happiness absolutely depends on being with them. So, we drove a lot to join homeschooling groups. Moving to Raglan eased this for us and has given them more socialisation. There are loads of chances for activities here. And they love it. Tim and I are also really happy here. I believe that parents' happiness is one of the main indicators of children’s happiness.

If the parents are joyful and excited about being alive, the kids really feel that.

Confidence in unschooling

I’ve always felt confident in unschooling. I’ve only doubted a couple of times, around how easy it would be for a kid with social needs to go into a classroom with 20 other kids. But I know that, in reality, you’re not playing all day. You’re only playing a small portion of the day, and the structure of school doesn’t support great friendships. So, I knew it would be easier for me because I wouldn’t have to facilitate the socialisation, but it wasn’t right for them.

You can romanticise school, but the reality isn’t like that. Kids should be playing 100% of the time and learning through play. I believe we all should.

I wasn’t always, but now I’m quite a radical unschooler. I honestly believe kids should stay out of their brains as long as possible. I think we’ve messed up the species by getting us into our brains too soon. Now we’ve got overactive, analysing, constantly stewing, constantly producing thoughts, instead of being in our bodies. It all starts when we take tiny kids who are so naturally in their bodies and say, "Stop that, think about this letter or number."

Freedom of Choice

“So, if your kids turned around and said, 'I want to go to school', would you be okay with that?”

Yeah, they can make their own choices. I wouldn’t want them to go and hang out at school if it were up to me. But, I’ve tried to shield them from my opinions about school, so they’re free to make that choice. Our youngest thought about it last year because one of her homeschooling best friends was going, and we were like, "Yep, we support you 100%."

The main thing for me with the girls is that I want them to know they can do anything they want. So, we’re constantly reinforcing that message: anything you want to learn, any achievement you want to set your heart on, we’re with you all the way.

Handling doubt and rebellion

“Does what other people think or do ever put doubt in your mind?”

No, I don’t care what anyone thinks.

“Have you always been like that?”

Yeah, it’s weird, but I’m just really rebellious by nature. I’m like, "Yeah, this is awesome, this is what I’m doing", and I don’t care what you think. It almost makes me more into the thing I’m doing.

My rebellious nature is both a flaw and a strength. I think everything — our flaws are also massive gifts, and that’s definitely one of mine.

Joy is my compass

“So you mentioned un-schooling feeds into all aspects of life, can you explain that?”

Un-schooling feeds into education, home life, and work. It all comes from the same place. Un-schooling or what we call "de-schooling, "which is where you're trying to get the school system out of your body, has influenced everything. What if I don’t think the way society expects me to?

One question I love to ask is, "If I were an alien who came to Earth and didn’t know anything about how this was done, how would I do it?" That’s the ultimate unschooling question.

You take something and do it in a way that serves you.

Like, if I were an alien and saw Christmas, I’d be like, "Why the heck are humans doing that? That’s insane! Why are they spending thousands of dollars and putting themselves into debt for one day?" Why are they cramming into a small house to argue for three days, even though they hardly see each other the rest of the year? That’s nuts. Why do that? Then ask, "What would I do instead".

I applied the same mindset to my business. It’s de-schooling, but applied to my work. Turns out, you don’t have to do things the traditional business way — just like Christmas.

Joy is my main compass in everything I do. It’s my North Star. And that’s why I’m always asking questions, like, "That feels extremely stressful, so I’m not going to do it that way." The question I’m always asking is, "Is there a way we can do this that’s easy, joyful, and makes everyone feel great?